Vortex Speaker Kits

Matt
If I was to build enclosures for the Vortex 12 similar to HTM 12s (added a few inches in depth to bring it up to 3cu ft) - H 15" x W 18" x D 15"

Ported tube: I'm leaning towards 1 x4" port tube for a cleaner look vs 3" x2. There are only a few options at PE. How do I know which length for 50hz? Please see image

Slot port: If I decide to do slot port, what would be my slot measurement?

Thank you sir,

 

Well a 50hz tune in a 3cuft cabinet with a single 4" port means it only needs to be about 1.5" long. Given those choices I would go with one of the bottom two and cut it down to the required length. You could also use the adjustable one on the top right (and cut it down) if that would be easier for you to install then the two bottom press fit ones.

If you used a slot port across the bottom it could be 16.5" wide x 1.25" high x 3" long.

 

Has anyone put the Vortex-12 into a small 1-1.5 cuft cabinet? And if so, what are your thoughts.

 

Matt,
What is the diameter of the Vortex 12" woofer and flush mount depth?

Thank you,

 

Overall diameter 12.38"
Recess depth 7/16" (measured, frame thickness without gasket)

 

My initial pass would be 12.38" diameter that is 7/16 deep. What is the actual cutout (hole) size - I measured 11.15"?

 

Eminence says 11.06" for the through-hole, from the KL3012CX spec sheet (same frame). This agrees with my measurement but I haven't cut my baffles yet to confirm.

 

Matt-
I've been testing the Vortex 12's as my LCR naked (in the process of building the enclosures). They sound really good even without enclosure. What is the range of lost frequency before the sub picks up at 80hz in a setup without an enclosure? I'm curious if the vortex would work as open baffle and then use active crossover/ another woofer to pick up the lost frequency.

 

I think it would start rolling off at a few hundred hz, but I haven't done the math/modeling on it.

Certainly nothing stopping you from using the coaxial open baffle and using another enclosed woofer to fill in between it and the subwoofer.

 

Here is my 3cuft 12" vortex. The enclosure is inspired by klipsch heresy. I will post again once I finish veneering. These replaced my LCR with 5.5" woofers. The most obvious difference is the midbass that comes from a 12" vs 5.5".

 

Got my six completed crossovers in the mail today! Matt did a great job putting them together, solder looks top-notch. Considering the supply chain issues, a very quick turn time also.

 

Vortex-12 kits are back up!

 

I already have 4 of these, two Vortex-15's, I think I'll let some other people have a shot at buying some this time around.

 

How do they sound? Are they sitting on the floor? Have you run REW to get a frequency response from them?
I still have to build mine, not sure if I want to do a tall cabinet like Matt did, 40x14x15.5 or something smaller.

 

They sound great. As mentioned before, I would consider them movies and music. These will be in the family room. The box size was a compromise for WAF. I have not done REW yet since the insides are not foamed/lined.

If you are not sure, mockup the dimension with cardboard box to get an idea. These are not small boxes. If I were you, stick with the 12" and just sell me the 15" to save you the trouble and headache

 

You're NOT getting a like for that!

I bought a table saw just to handle these new enclosures I plan on building. My old one could only do a 12" rip, now I have up to 2 feet as-is. New saw has some guts to it, old saw I could stop that motor with a good piece of wood and one hand. The new one will probably shoot the wood through me!

There is a pair of Vortex-15's on the AVSFORUM. They are 17x19.25x50.

I think I may make mine about that size also. The Vortex-12's will be smaller.

 

I`ll let you know what I think of my 12`s shortly. After much paralysis by analysis, I ended up going with a vented cabinet 15" x 22.5" x 10". I tuned them to around 68 Hz and will cross at 80-100 Hz. This group is for front wides and side/rear surround so I just couldn't turn down an additional 5 dB at 80 Hz. They are built and sanded, just need to spray duratex this weekend.

I just ordered 6 more that will be sealed Atmos, probably 1 cu ft boxes according to winisd.

 

ATTENTION VORTEX 15" owners - If anyone bought Vortex 15's and are currently still in boxes. I get it - I tend to do the same when something goes on sale at DIYSG - BUY NOW and FIGURE OUT LATER IF REALLY NEED IT. If you have a pair or 3x of Vortex 15s, PM me and I will take them off your hands so you can buy that next kit, speaker, amp that you've been eyeing. I am here to help you.

 

Hey Rich - I just bought two more off a guy, and I only need one of them (I'm adding a center channel). If you are interested in buying one, message me. If you are on AVS they are also posted in the audio gear for sale section.

I know its not 3, but I suspect buying a pair and then one separate is going to be easier then finding one person with 3 for sale.

 

PM Sent

 

Matt (or anyone) --

I'm trying to finalize my Vortex 12 cabinets for surround use. Aiming for them to look like built-in columns along the wall so they'll basically be shallow depth, floor standing cabinets. I'd likely cross between 80-100 Hz.

To get the tweeter around ear level, stick to the original cabinet width and use 48" panels for convenience, I'm looking at 14" Wide x 48" Tall x 8.5" Deep (external). That gives me a 2.35 ft³ internal volume.

NOTE: I'm just starting to use WinISD. Got the driver into the system no problem, using the T/S parameters supplied.

The Signal Input Power parameter significantly affects Cone Excursion and Rear Port Air Velocity (understandably). How much emphasis should I put on these graphs though? For example, if I set the Signal Input Power to the full 300w from the amp I'll be using -- 2.35 ft³ at a 65 Hz tune using 2 3" ports -- the Transfer Function Magnitude graph seems okay (to a noobs eyes) and the Cone Excursion graph tops out right at the 6mm Xmax in the anticipated XO region. Now, if I look at the Rear Port Air Velocity graph, it goes through the roof under 100 Hz. If I drop the Input Power down to something like 50w then the port velocity seems fine -- but now the Cone Excursion tops out at just 2.5mm.

I guess I'm wondering what parameters matter most when doing these models. Obviously the speaker won't be using a full 300w under normal use but should that still be used as the "worst case scenario" in terms of protecting the driver from over-excursion and to avoid the potential for port chuffing? I guess the overall sensitivity of the speaker probably factors in to how much amplifier power they'll draw, right?

Ryan

 

Add an 80hz highpass since these will not be used fullrange and check the port air velocity again, it should be reduced. You could also tune down around 60hz too which when combined with the highpass will reduce the port air velocity a little further.

 

Okay, awesome! Thanks for pointing that out.

I played around with both a 60hz and 80hz HPF just to see how the graphs changed. Also played around with round ports of various diameters and slot ports of various heights (keeping the full 12.5" width).

If I set an 80hz HPF, using a 60hz tune and a slot port (instead of 2 rounds) of 1.5" x 12.5" x 2.5", the response created is a slow roll-off from about 500hz to an F3 around 80hz. Port velocity peaks at about 16m/s and cone excursion is well under Xmax. If I bump the tune up to 70hz (same port), the response is basically flat to 90hz with an F3 around 73hz -- but the port velocity now maxes out around 22.5 m/s. I have it in my head that 17 m/s is a general goal. Is 22.5 too much?

I feel like the flatter curve is preferable but I've not done this enough to know which response curve is a better target. Any opinions?

 

22.5 m/s isn't too high especially if that's at full power. I doubt you ever get much sustained bass from the surrounds at the exact frequency of peak port velocity near max input power, if you do any possible cuffing at that level would be masked by the nearly 120dB output levels from the speaker.

I wouldn't really fret over the exact tune and the bass rolloff being having a dB or two here or there it will be dominated by the exact placement and response in the room. Though personally I like to tune a little lower if I can with a gradual rolloff towards tune rather then super flat and a faster rolloff.

Make sure you are not modeling the response with the highpass added, only add that when looking at cone excursion and port velocity. You don't want to design a box with a peak in the response hidden by the highpass. The response should slope down to the crossover frequency with the highpass added. Then when the speaker and subwoofer are run together the pair should theoretically sum as a flat/smooth frequency response where the individual highpass/lowpass overlap.

Another thing I should point out is model the woofer with 1 Ohm of series resistance which will more closely emulate the response with the added DCR from the inductors in the crossover.

 

Thanks, Matt. I've added in the resistance and am now only enabling the HPF when looking at velocity and excursion. You're right -- with the HPF off, there is a big hump near tuning that you don't see with it enabled (which makes sense now in hindsight).

So after some more fiddling, I'm now guesstimating a slightly lower internal volume of 2.25 ft³ (2.34 actual) for displacement of the driver, bracing, etc. Still looking at external dimensions of: 48" tall x 14" wide x 8.5" deep. Below is where I'm at. Unless anyone happens to see any glaring issues, I think I'm going to proceed with this plan. I'm really anxious to hear these! I'll probably try them up front too before relegating them to surround duty.