So I will be moving into a new home next year, and the family room in this place is enormous (well, compared to my current 12x17x9 room). Around 18 x 26 x 10 feet (so some 4700 cubic feet), and open to a kitchen. Attached is the room. This will really be where we entertain and "live" in the house 90% of the time when we're not sleeping. So it's important the speakers look the part. I will be having the TV put above the fireplace which is the first issue. There will be a faux stone tile wall going up to the ceiling, likely built-in cabinets on either side of the stone wall/mantle where the electronics will go, and then about 2-3 feet left on either side for my DIY subs. I'm thinking I'd like to keep the speakers to possibly 10" drivers and they'll sit on top of each DIY dual 15" subwoofer. Big problem is the center and surrounds. With the center, at best it will sit on top of the mantle of the fireplace, and can't be more than say 10" deep and ideally not more than 10-12" high, max. Even that could be an issue given the TV will already be quite high on top above the fireplace, and I'm wondering if I should consider no center and just go phantom. I recently tried that with my Paradigm S2 bookshelves in my current 12x17 family room, but I find when I sit on the couch (which is along a side wall) the sound just comes from the right speaker. So would prefer the more traditional CC route if possible. I might be able to fit a couple of rears at the back of the room on each of the small back walls (opening to the kitchen), which would be about 5-6 feet behind the main listening seats/couch. Then "might" consider in-ceiling speakers above the couch as additional surrounds for 7.1 but may not bother with that. Here's what I was thinking: Some sort of SeoS 10 Kit with AE TD10's as the main driver for the front L/R (has anyone designed a speaker with the AE TD10 line yet, and how is the reliability/delivery time these days with John? For the rears, at most an 8" driver (Alchemy-8) type kit. Not sure if AE offers a TD8 (their store has not been working for a couple weeks, which makes me a tad nervous). The CC may have to be something with 8" drivers to accommodate the CC. I was thinking at one point Fusion 8's all around, but the purple woofers I'm just not into and don't necessarily want to have to put grills on the speakers. Another option may be the Alpha 8 Minion line as I understand that could be coming out with a Center Channel. I'm curious as to how "loud" a level the Alpha 8 Minions could play in a room that size? I might be able to get "Height" channels as well with the 8's past the wife given they are more "minimalistic" than 10" options. Anyhow, while I have over a year to make the decision, I do need to plan out shortly what connections I'll need in that room so thought I'd reach out early! I'm also going to pick up Fusion 6's for a separate game room (10x15x10), hopefully in the next few months so I can also figure out how to veneer speakers. :-[ Would love suggestions! Again, smaller and more WAF friendly is better, and yes, I know that doesn't bode well in a 4,700 cubic foot room that opens up to a kitchen. But not much I can do there.
Hey PBC, I still remember your sub build. What's your budget and does it have to be a kit with flat pack and assembled XO'ers? It sounds like you're budget is high. I don't think AE offers an 8" woofer. I'd go with 4 minions and run a phantom center. Extremely WAF, simple, all matching, and ready to build. If you have time and want to get interesting, I'd go custom. Custom is really the only way to tackle the problems you are facing. Use the TD10 or some high end 10" woofer and SEOS10 or something and build the speakers that fit your space requirements. This will offer the most performance, but will of course be time consuming. And will require some XO design.
Hey Tux, Concerned more right now with WAF vs budget (not to imply the budget is unlimited, as it's not given I won't be mortgage free much longer!). I would likely sell my Paradigm Signature S2's and Signature C3 to fund a good portion of the build. I'm intrigued with the Minion's given their size and the comments on the site about their output handling. I'd even consider using an additional pair has "height" channels if I can make them look good with Veneer, etc. I'm just curious as to what to expect in a room that size from those fairly small speakers. Even my dual opposed builds will likely be challenged in that room, but I will have to adjust my expectations (WAF vs pressurization!) and maybe when I get around to it, build an HT room in my basement and go crazy down there. Time and XO design experience are two things I don't have much (well..any) of. Hence why I was wondering if anyone had built a ready made design using a flat pack with the TD10's, if those would be a significant upgrade over the Minions. The Phantom thing scares me a bit, given how I have been trying to run it the past couple weeks with my current setup, but given I sit pretty close to the Left front speaker, to me everything just sounds like it's coming from that speaker. Mind you, I haven't rerun Audyssey, simply turned off my CC in my Integra 80.3 so maybe it would sound better if I did turn it off. I still think I'd prefer having a Minion based CC if one does come out that fits the bill size-wise. I also love your 1099's (or whatever they ended up being called ... looks like they've been pulled from the store at the moment), come up with a CNC design for a Kerf'd build that has some nice curves and maybe I can convince the wifey! Surprised no one has kerf'd a build yet, though I'm not sure if a CNC machine can as easily do this and/or what other issues it would cause for ErichH (shipping incidents, etc).
I'm not sure if there's a flat black version for the minions. Unfortunately you don't have time or XO design experience, so you really seem to want to go the kit route. But then again, the kits aren't exactly high high WAF and given your constraints, not the highest performance. Because what you really need is a custom application. Unfortunately the 10" arena seems to be your sweet spot, but that hasn't been developed yet. Hence the need to go custom. I'd be happy to do a 10" design, but I don't have any high end 10" woofers around here. I have a SEOS 10 and DNA-360 though. Also, let's just say I don't think output will be as big of a problem as you think. What will your listening distance be? This is far more importatn. I'm in a huge room, but sit 10ft away. I get tons of room gain, despite being open to the entire house.
I think I'll be sitting about 18' away, so relatively far. Matt PM'd me and believes the Minion's should have ample output and he's working on a MTM version as well which will have higher output/efficiency. Given how far off I am from needing to build, I may consider a more DIY route vs AIY route. Concern is woodworking skills and cross-over though. I could possibly get a friend of the family who is a woodworker to build some nice cabs for me I think (not sure how much it will cost me, maybe I'll get him to veneer my subs as well!), and may still go a AE TD10M route, possibly with an Active Cross over like the MiniDSP 10x10? I assume that would make it easier to adjust the cross over on the fly? Would love to go with a fairly higher end build if folks think the SQ would be that much better with the TD10M's. The x-over work scares me more than anything else. Outside of cost (and figuring out cabling, i.e., getting it to all the speakers), any other downsides to going the MiniDSP active route vs passive?
Nothing wrong with active with a minidsp. But do remember, you still need to "design" the XO. It's not just plug and play. We both live in Canada, I could help you with that if you're interested. Can you take measurements?
Tux...what about a MTM design around the acoustic elegance td8 line? Not sure if the x or m would be better. http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3365&start=15 Then I would possibly use another pair of TM as surrounds (which may have to be placed in the rear of the room). Wonder if these would work in the same kit as the Fusion MTM and Fusion Alchemy.
Re:measurements, I have taken extensive measurements of my subs with REW, not sure how diff taking measurements of mains would be.