Product Page: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/home-theater-speakers/elusive-1099.html CINEMA ELUSIVE 1099 I want to thank: Erich Fatshaft dtsdig Robert Jones Maxmercy Coctostan And all the contributers to the SEOS design (Zilch, Audio Josh, Penngray, LTD02, etc.) This speaker is designed for the ultimate in audio while having the nagging requirement to use a center channel. There just aren't many speakers out there that can be flipped horizontally without screwing up the SQ, even if the marketing department at Polk thinks it's ok. So in comes the Elusive 1099! This thing has incredible output, clarity that is ranks among the best in the world, excellent horizontal coverage, and constrained vertical coverage. With many end users completely floored by the sound quality of these speakers, it's no wonder they're so hard to keep in stock. Keep your browser on refresh as they don't tend to stay in stock long. The person who requires a horizontal center channel, yet wants uncompromising sound quality at reference levels should take a good look at the Elusive 1099. This speaker fits the bill while so many others simply can't! FAQ Q. Is this design not good for people with AT screens? Was it developed just for people without AT screens? A. No. It's a great design for AT screens. Erich and I just wanted something people could use as a horizontal center also, because there aren't many GOOD options. Q. So if I have an AT screen, should I use 3 verticals versions, or 2 vertical and 1 horizontal. A. Use 3 vertical. Although the difference is slight, might as well have them all the same. Q. Do these require break in? A. I'm often skeptical of claims that break in changes the sound dramatically. Especially with electronics. But in this case, the woofers are a stiff pro style driver that many people seem to find improves with break in. I too have experienced this. For fast break in, I suggest a sine wave at 35hz turned up until you see the woofer cone moving a couple mm each direction. Avoid ugly noises! Leave that going for half an hour. It should not be to loud as it's below tuning, and won't suck to much power as it's right on an impedance peak. Alternatively, play some heavy bass full range but be careful not to over excursion them. Q. What is the power handling? Seems like it should be a billion zillion trillion watts but it's only 400 watts on the DIYsoundgroup website. A. I rate my speakers conservatively based on where the subwoofer is crossed over and how much excursion could take place during high volumes. Many manufacturers state the peak power applied above excursion problems. If that doesn't make sense, just know that I'm conservative because I have no marketing agenda like other manufacturers do. Q. Why use the DNA-205 and not the better DNA-360? A. Better? Hmm. Well, the DNA-360 is really only better at crossing low. The design crosses at 1700hz so the 205 is actually better because it's cheaper. The Fusion 10 Max uses the DNA-360 if that interests you. Q. Is this speaker better than the Fusion XXX or JTR XXX or Seaton XXX or etc.? A. If I haven't heard it, I don't know. All I can do is tell you the potential design merits of each according to published measurements. Q. What surround speaker do you recommend to mate with these? A. The Volt 10 uses a similar woofer, very small, affordable, has the benefits of coax, and seems quite popular. The Fusion 10 uses the same woofer, waveguide, and compression driver, and is designed by me so will have a similar timbre, but costs more and is bigger. Those are my two biggest recommendations. Q. Where should I cross to my subs? A. 80hz is my default answer. 60 ok. No less than 60hz is recommended. Q. Can I run these full range? A. Not recommended. Q. Where can I get the kit, I don't see it on the DIYsoundgroup website. A. This kit is very hard to keep in stock because there are so many parts needed for it. As such, you won't find it on the site often. Check back often and it'll show up when the parts are available again. And sometimes Erich substitutes XO parts for available ones. So if you get a mills resistor or something a little different than what you see in someone else's thread, that's ok. It's only because the normal part wasn't available. We're trying to keep these in stock. Q. How do I wire up the XO? A. Post #3 might help. If not, you can hire mtg90 to build it for you. Or ask on the forum. What ever you do, please don't do it wrong to save a few bucks and live with a bad speaker. I've had some people ask what was wrong with their XO and it was completely shorted out and their amp was lucky to be alive. Doing this part wrong can damage stuff. Get the proper help and get it done right. Q. What size amp should I use with these? A. Something with at least 20 watts. Q. How can they possibly sound good with only 20 watts? A. Well, they'll work with 1 watt. How loud do you want to play? 20 watts will give you about 105db sitting about 10 feet away (depending how you look at it). That's actually really loud. So for reference level, you'll want at least that. So yes, your little receiver will power these just fine. Wanna put a big pro amp on them, sure go right ahead.
MEASUREMENTS A little word on measurements. It's important to understand that my measurements are taken in a nearly reflection free environment (outdoors on a tall stand) and the software is used to further remove reflections from the measurement. This provides a nearly anechoic results. It does however make the low frequencies not useful. For this, I employ other techniques. I often don't show the low frequencies because the box size can change from person to person. Because the measurements are reflection free, they can look quite different than room measurements often seen on forums. Please be careful when comparing the two. If someone shows a measurement of any speaker and that measurement is taken in their room, it deserves scrutiny. Room measurements are very useful, but they don't tell someone else very much about the speaker. These reflection free measurements are the way to evaluate the speaker's objective performance. Finally, there are many measurements one can take of a speaker. I generally show some on and off axis behavior and not much more. I may measure things like distortion for myself when designing the speaker, but they aren't very useful when making a comparison without fully understanding the measurement conditions and other aspects of the test. Usually, these detailed measurements just confuse people. So they are omitted. Having said the above, here are the Cinema Elusive 1099 measurements for your consideration NOTE: Originally I provided some circle polar measurements that are useful for really analyzing what a speaker like this is about, however they were very confusing for people as they are very revealing. In one case, there was a well respected calibrator from AVS forum who felt the speaker was poorly designed and tried to talk his client out of using the 1099. This was simply because he didn't understand those charts. In the end the calibrator heard the speakers and was floored, but because of many stories like this, I'm not going to post those polars. Free space Spliced GP (useful for looking at the low end response) Impedance
Reserved for cross over and cabinet construction instructions and advice. CABINET DETAILS AND INSTRUCTIONS General If you purchase the flat pack kit, you don't need to worry about this all that much. Assembly is usually a pretty smooth and easy process. If you're building your own cabinet with just the baffle, you need a final volume around 20 to 30L in each woofer chamber after bracing, ports, etc. The mids chamber should be constructed with panels just above the waveguide and just below the mids (or sides if making a horizontal center). The depth will be determined by the woofer section. The mids chamber is very flexible to size, but should be more than 12L internal volume and sealed. The ports supplied in the kit will tune the cabinet properly if you're in the proper range of volumes. Generally, bigger will give you lower bass with the woofers. To get a cabinet of about 30L, your box dimensions should be 12.5" wide, 36.25" tall, and 14" deep BEFORE you attach the front baffle. It's a good idea to make the box about 1/16" small all around, and then you can flush trim or sand the baffle flush with the box. I'm aware those dimensions make woofer chambers that are bigger than 30L, but the woofer, XO, bracing, and ports all consume volume bringing it down around 30L each. Smaller Box You can make the box as shallow as 11.5" before attaching the baffle if the small reduction in bass isn't a problem. The height and width should stay the same to properly attach the baffle. Another option is to go sealed by cutting off the ports and reducing the box height. You can do this, but you're somewhat on your own and there will be a big reduction in bass. You're better off experimenting with plugging the ports so you can open them again if you find the bass lacking. Stuffing Use fiberglass insulation or pillow polyfill to line the cabinet walls. There are other available materials such as Owens Corning 703, denim insulation, open cell foam, etc. If you're not sure, use the guts of a cheap pillow. Line it on the interior of the cab using staples or spray adhesive or some form of attachment. Keep it clear of the ports and the basket area of the woofer. You don't want any getting tangled in the woofer. For the mids chamber, you can stuff it much more full. Even if the entire chamber consists of stuffing with just a little space behind the mids, that's good. Terminal Cups No need to go fancy. As long as it connects properly to the XO it'll work. Biwiring doesn't help. Speakon connectors are a good method if you're comfortable with them. Finishing Duratex is a popular method of getting a durable, black, easy finish, though you are free to finish your speaker any way you please. It's a good idea to scan some of the build threads for all kinds of DIYSoundGroup speaker builds to get an idea of finishing options. Choose a procedure that fits your tastes and skills.
Erich put them up for preorder but didn't want to over sell them. He's gonna wait until more parts are in to open the order up again. What ever amount he did open up sure sold fast. Sorry.
any cabinet design guides on this I live in the philippines planning to have the cabinet done here and my family foward the kit to me.
I'm planning to setup these as LCR, all vertical, behind an AT screen. I have the flexibility to set them at any height. I figure ear level is about 39", if aligned to the middle of the speaker (36.25 / 2 = 18.125), would put it 20.875" off the floor. Is this the optimal height? Thanks
Does anyone have the T/S Specs, or just some simple data like power ratings, usable freq response, and optimum enclosure and tuning numbers (I would assume the 1099 build is just that) for the 1099 woofers? I know they are 16ohms, but thats about it. Looking to do a dual MMT with an F3 bandpass of 80-1200hz under a DNA360 design. Thanks!
@tuxedocivic Ryan, sent you a Private Message Conversation thingy on here regarding the 1099.. Thanks!!
for the 1099 will polyfill be enough to use in the enclosure. or would lining the inside walls be helpful as well?
where do you recommend putting the pcb? I was thinking in the middle cabinet, but thought that might be hard to get to if I ever needed to get access to the pcb. Other than that the bottom cabinet is my best option so I can remove the woofer and get to the pcb. Just wondering other thoughts on this.
I figured I would add my 1099's to the thread. Finished them a few months ago. Had to make stands to get the tweeters up to ear-height. Had plenty of veneer left over so it was no problem. But.......... There is a very good chance they are getting moved from Main Left & Right and put in the Surround Position. I just finished a pair of Vortex-15's and I am thinking they will be better (for my use) than the 1099's. The center will stay. But, if the new speakers are not better, then the 1099's stay up front! All enclosures were finished with the same veneer. Just trying to make my complete surround system, and NOT for movies. I primarily listen to 2 channel stereo, well maybe 3, I do use the subs all the time. But I also have a lot of music in surround, especially concerts. That is why I built my room.
I sometimes lurk around the 1099s forum to see what people are doing. I've been curious about this set of speakers and was waiting to purchase them when the HTM12s came available first (I may still get them if timing is right with the funds and finding a place in the garage to hide them ) - I'm curious how the vortex would compare with the 1099s. I've compared my Vortex 12s with my HTM12s a few weeks back. Both are great speakers. For music, I would give the Vortex the edge. They are detailed but warm at the same time. For movies, the HTM12 is in a different playing field when it comes to the dialogue and detail. I have a feeling you may have the same results. I can't wait how they compare for you.
In the process of building my 1099s now and trying to decide on surrounds. Was thinking about HT8s for surrounds but given this comment was wondering is it possible to get the designs and part list for the Fusion 10s from somewhere?
Well, my system is almost done. I have the Vortex-15's as the L & R, a 1099 Center and the other two 1099's as Surrounds. I am thinking either Volt-8's or Volt-10's for Rear Surrounds and Front Presence. Not sure what benefit they will give me, I only listen to music with this system. I have a pair of Volt-10's in my shop and they do a good job out there.